How much of what you guys are doing is improv?

Martin: In our original tunes, not so much. Those tunes are pretty thoroughly composed. The solos and rhythm parts I try to keep the same as I did on the CD. I’ll embellish a little bit here and there, but I try to keep it as close to the record as I can.

On the other hand, when we play the cover stuff, I find that I never play it the same way from night to night. He doesn’t sing it the same way. Brian never plays the same thing. I try to listen to the vocals and drums and I try at least to respond to what’s around me.

Smitty: It depends on the set as far as the extent of improvising. When we have Sam, I mean, Brian can solo too, but people don’t always want to hear a drum solo and stuff.

Brian: Not since the 70’s. (Laughter.)

Smitty: Martin and Sam are the guys who can solo. So when [Sam’s] here and we get into more of the funkier stuff, there’s definitely more soloing. If we’re doing, like, a forty-minute set in a place that is, like, here’s gonna be all of our original stuff, then not so much.

Martin: Especially with the cover stuff, too. We try to keep it so the people are like, ‘oh yeah, that tune, I like that song, I know that song.’ But also really try to inject, I think, at least our musical ideas into them. For example, on the Tom Petty tune, originally that’s a harmonica line, I think, “Mary Jane’s Last Dance.” That’s a harmonica line. You know, we usually do that on guitar with a little wah wah pedal and all of the sudden it’s kind of this different rocky line.

Smitty: Improvisation is not necessarily the focus of what think about as far as our direction as a band and stuff.

Brian: I think it is, but it’s just in a very different level than the obvious way of interpreting the word improvise. It’s about really where is the song's going to go and it’s about who are we tonight. You know, this is the Silverton Hub, we could just create this whole other thing. It’s more about this other fine tone of how are our songs play every time we play, how are they gonna be spiked tonight?

And that’s why people I think start taping gigs and the whole jam band scene, even if it's some band that’s not a real jam band but they’re playing the same tunes. The same tune as always, but a little bit differently. Or you’ll hear sometimes, ‘Oh yeah, they played that version of that tune back in Jersey.’ It’s the same exact rendition or arrangement. It’s just like, you know, maybe the guy had two beers in him more. (Laughter.) Or maybe, on the tape and there was a fight in the background (Laughter.) and they’re just reacting to it. We’re still trying to nail the same arrangement, but there’s outside forces. You’re always going to be improvising, when you’re working with that stuff.

How do you guys decide on what styles to include in your music? Do they come about spontaneously?

Brian: I think it just comes about spontaneously. My attraction to that is that we don’t really try to recreate any other band. It is as simple as it gets for me on the drums. I don’t think about any other drummers, like I might on some other gigs. I just try to support the song.

Smitty: Many artists’ and songwriters’ music has touched me emotionally, spiritually, or otherwise. The style of the songs that have reached me, and the styles of artists whose self-expression has been most meaningful to me are the most influential styles in my music, and the most likely to be somehow included or incorporated into my musical expression, I think. Usually, these influences make their way into a song or an idea almost unbeknownst to me. Occasionally, I’ll consciously try to integrate something from a style because I think it will be effective for a certain section of a song or idea.

Martin: I’ve discussed this at length with the other guys in the band after hearing our songs recorded. I hear elements from various influences. I’ll be listening and think, ‘Oh that’s such a Tom Petty-ism or Weezer wall of guitar.’ But, at the same time, I’ll hear that same thing juxtaposed against some drum sound, sax part or vocal nuance and realize that it has its own sound for whatever reason. I know I don’t consciously shoot for that, but I think it’s totally natural for your lifelong pursuit of listening to come out in the music you write and the way you perform.

I think the same holds true for some of the covers we do at bar gigs. Although people know the tunes and melodies, the tunes still have this Smit-Haus sound to them.

You used to have more members in your horn section. Why did you strip that down and how has it affected your sound?

Smitty: A couple of the guys just had other commitments or pursuits that were more financially secure and, I guess, more important to them. They dropped out.

We had trouble replacing them since there were a lot of parts to learn, lots of traveling to do, and not much money to promise to prospective players in return for this commitment. For a long time, we played as a five-piece, with just the sax for horns, me playing a little guitar, and another bass player. The bass player left for a much better gig, but we had grown to like that pared down sound that had developed over that period with him. But again, finding a bass player willing to make such a financially unrewarding but time-consuming commitment was very difficult.

I decided to try playing bass. I’m a much less-proficient bass player than he is, and that kind of limited some of the funk tunes we could pull off, which also made having a horn section even less important. At the same time, the songs we began writing were more rock tunes than funk tunes.

Martin: When Smitty and I started the band in 1997, it was really a totally different project. I almost think of it as another band. It was just a party band that happened to stumble onto some good gigs in New York City. The mission of that group was to recreate that 70’s funk sound. Bands like Parliament Funkadelic, the Ohio Players, Tower of Power, that’s what we were shooting for, but it just didn’t feel so great after a while. The music we were writing didn’t feel honest. It didn’t reflect my musical roots. I felt like I was trying to consciously write in the style of George Clinton and Bootsy Collins.

Don’t get me wrong, I love that stuff and I think a lot of the funk playing we did over the years works its way into our current sound. The horn section just kind of faded away, for the various reasons that Smitty described. [We] began to write more rock tunes and got more interested in writing lyrics, guitar lines and thickening up our drums.

We are now a more guitar-driven band with a focus on writing strong, memorable vocal melodies. Melody is really what we’re looking for in these most recent songs. That’s very different than putting the focus on long, intricate horn lines and shout vocals like “Get Up For The Downstroke.”

Sam: I don't think that the horn section would have nearly as much to do on these "rockier" tunes. I also think having just one horn player brings that person into the band more rather than have a horn section and a rhythm section. It's similar to how the Dave Matthews Band operates with their violinist and sax player. I think the best example of the saxophone as rhythm section was in Morphine, where the saxophone was responsible for a lot of the chording and riffs. I find myself referring to their recordings for guidance.

What does the saxophone do for your band?

Sam: As the saxophonist, I like the opportunity to use the instrument, not just for solos, but also to add an extra layer to the rhythm section. Usually, I give a pretty straight saxophone sound, but sometimes it's fun to play the parts with a lot of effects. You really start to get into some original sounds since there isn't much precedent in rock and pop music.

Martin: I really like having a saxophone in the band because it not only adds color, but can work in many non-traditional saxophone ways. What I mean is that, at times, Sam is not just blowing over the song in a David Sanborn solo kind of way. He’s actually got a thick rhythm part that compliments Smitty’s vocals or my guitar. My favorite example of this is the bridge on our song “Crazy Enough” where Sam’s sax sounds like some kind of freight train in what would otherwise be a pretty basic chunky guitar bridge. I also like that the sax sets the band apart in some senses from the traditional power trio.

Smitty: Sam’s a great soloist, and we use the sax a lot for that. It also adds a different element that a lot of rock bands don’t have.

Brian: Right. It’s definitely another color to add.

You seem to have a rootsy rock base in a lot of your songs, do you guys listen to a lot of music in the Tom Petty and Springsteen vein? Is this is style you consciously try to incorporate?

Brian: I think unconsciously for me. I didn’t listen to Bruce or Petty before I met Martin and Smitty. Now I understand that music much better and where it comes from, and I see a link between what we play and the style of music played by those masters.

Smitty: Springsteen and Petty are two of my musical heroes.

Martin: It’s not conscious at all. I can hear those influences in our songs, but most of the time I feel like I’d kill to write a tune like Petty or Bruce. I grew up with that music. I feel like much of the guitar I learned when I was younger comes from Petty’s guitar player Mike Campbell. He floors me. My mother used to always play Tom Petty in the car when I would go to hockey practice. I know those influences come out in my writing and performing. Sometimes I do think, what would Mike Campbell play here, but, inevitably, it doesn’t come out like that. It comes out as Martin Small’s rendition of what Mike Campbell might play, which is colored by the scores of other guitar players and instrumentalists I love.

I noticed that Martin does not do many solos on the CD, most of those are left for Sam. Is there something in your music that makes a sax solo more viable than a guitar solo?

Martin: I think that’s an interesting question, but it’s more of a coincidence than anything else. There’s only one guitar solo on that record. The other tunes didn’t seem to scream guitar solo the way “The Same” did. I don’t feel the need to slap a guitar solo on every song to prove that I can play. I pay more attention to the song sonically to decide whether a guitar solo fits. That’s something we discuss when we’re arranging a new song as well.

For example, our next record will have more guitar solos. Indeed, we’re already playing most of those new songs at shows and I’m taking the solos. Why does it work out that way? I can’t tell you why because the tunes just came out that way. I don’t think there is something more viable about a sax solo. What’s most important is making. sure whatever part you add fits the song. Some songs shouldn’t have solos, I think.