It's been a decade and a half since Berlin last did a studio record. That would put us somewhere around 1986, a good year for music, and the Mets. Count Three And Pray was not representative of a band on the decline, but like the many before them that turned heads, flipped hair, feigned fashion and so forth, a new wave of commercialism set into the industry that dusted innovation for mainstream excess.

Berlin bowed out only a few years later, but not before achieving worldwide accolades. First, on the developmental front with their 1982 breakthrough Pleasure Victim EP, with its futuristic vision of electro pop at the forefront of a struggling post-disco craze. Later, with Love Life, and its breakthrough hit, "No More Words." Berlin quickly reached their number one peak soon after with "Take My Breath Away," the memorable Top Gun film soundtrack hit.

The word was out shortly before settling in to speak with the then-and-again Berlin front woman, Terri Nunn, having now adopted a multi-lateral role in a band that's gone from a traditional trio to include a fully-renovated five-member cast. Having first broken through the "Where Are They Now" ranks with the 2000 live album, Sacred & Profane, they are  ready with the release of a brand-new studio record called Voyeur, an album that's already received high marks within the media community and finds an in-demand Nunn, formerly of pop diva status and every bit the re-conquering beauty queen, sharing her thoughts with the likes of a guy who's suddenly stepped back to sixteen and adolescent tremors revisited. Nunn, sweet as ever, soulful and down to earth, and the guy who turns down mega-seller requests left and right, returning to zero trying to distinguish between she and the Knack's front man Doug Fieger.  More on that shortly, and not to be taken so literally as it seems.

The band that lay dormant in the intervening years that saw electronic music make significant strides throughout the '90s and help propel present-day successes like Nine Inch Nails, Moby and Garbage to iconic status, returns to reacquaint themselves with a scene they helped create, only now with the means for yesterday's pipedream to break bigger, better, and bolder.

Voyeur is a well-bred mix of pop, rock, and dance styles that captures the original essence of an experimental young band's insecure vision with a seasoned staff of players who share a passion for the future, and for an album that's daring and unexpectedly dynamic.

Confession time begins now.

Hi Terri. I've got a lot to go with here so I thought I'd take the same approach with you as I did with Doug from The Knack a while back. That's to say, we'll begin with the new, back track a little bit, then move forward.

The Knack had a new record out?

Well, actually, they did one in late 2001 called Normal As The Next Guy.  But they did do this live show recently called From The Rock n' Roll Fun House we were talking up. But, it's funny, yeah, that's the kind of response I think they get from a lot of people, including me when I first learned of them again.

That people didn't know about them?

Exactly.

What label did it come out on?

I don't know.  (Laughs.)  No, I do, they're a pop label that's probably slightly more obscure than the Capitol we all knew them from. It's called Image Entertainment. Yeah, some pretty cool stuff.

And they didn't push it?

I don't know that they didn't push it. Probably not as much as one would've expected back in the day, but once I did some digging, I found out about them and they were pretty forthcoming with me and the band does some regular touring. It was actually from the original reissues, of their early albums, that I first noticed them.

So was this a good record?

Sure, you know, it's a Knack record. The cool thing about them, and Doug in particular, was that they are what they are, and they don't deny it. They're a pop band, and if you dug the early stuff … but, with you guys, there's obviously a great deal more experimentalism running throughout your music. So, I guess, oppositely from a group like them, Berlin's past and future's still about lunging forward into previously unexplored territory.

Thank you.

I was a little nervous going into this, you know. I mean, not to undermine your success or level of achievement, as a group, but let's face it, you were the focal point of more than a few teenage male followers, some of which haven't fully grown up and accepted adulthood yet!  So, if this does sound scripted, rest assured ...

That it is, yeah!  (Laughs.)

Let's open with the new record. Usually I don't have a lot of faith in returning groups that had their day and seem lost in the shuffle going forward; but then Blondie did their thing and began to restore my faith, and now you guys. Can you go into a little about the making of Voyeur?

It really started, I would say, when Mitchell Sigman joined the band. He started really coalescing the new sound for me.  And, even since he joined, we've gone through a couple of different phases. He joined in April of 2000.  He's a producer, songwriter, and just one of those do-everything types of guys.  He joined as a keyboard player and has a lot of the same musical tastes as I, so he helped me put together the future look of the band. So, these phases I mentioned are really present on the new album. We've gone through a real rock thing, which the song "Drug" personifies; "Stranger On The Bus" was also during that time, very early on. Then, we did "Lost My Mind" and that was a whole other kind of hip-hop, trippy kind of feel that "All I Ever Need" came out of. And now we're going into dance really heavily; we're just loving that whole feeling which allowed us to come up with "Shiny" and "Blink Of An Eye."  That, for me, was the rave experience.  It's a really wonderful history in Berlin within the whole dance scene and that brought it back for me.

I remember reading about the band recently and, so naturally, wanting to maintain my autonomy, I sought to avoid the [typical].  Of course, opening with a conversation about The Knack wasn't quite how it was laid out, but mission accomplished anyway!  (Laughs.)  But, some of your quotes were very enthusiastic about Berlin's connection to dance and where you're at now. You've got a great mix of everything here within the modern music scene.  We can go song-by-song and distinguish a different element and emotion. There's a familiarity in the Berlin sound, but not predictability. Fans who know you will get it but new listeners will also embrace it as new music.

For me it's about moving electronic music forward. That was the whole point for Berlin when we started it. We actually wanted to start electronic music in America, because it wasn't here yet. It was in Europe and England. There was a band called Ultravox who were starting it over there. Germany had a band called Kraftwork.  We just fell in love with that whole sound in the late '70s and thought if we could do that, you know, maybe with more pop type songs, we could have something. And also, none of the those bands overseas had female singers. So we thought we could really make something new.  We did and, for a long time, people laughed and told us we were terrible and it definitely wasn't what was going on. There was this whole pop craze.  In fact, The Knack was really going on. They were part of this huge wave with The Motels, and The Go Go's and The Plimsouls.  Punk was still happening with The Cramps and The Zippers.  We were just, like, this weird band that wasn't guitar-oriented and nobody got it. But, we got better and kept going at it. That was the point in the beginning and now I brought Berlin back to do a record, because I really love where electronic music's gone. But, it's kind of lost its way a little for me; I love techno, I love industrial, I love trance music, but it's gotten away from the song for me. And that's something I can bring back.

Throw a few names at me that you've followed along the way that you think have made a relevant contribution to the scene.

Massive Attack, NIN, Garbage, The Sneaker Pimps, who are now defunct, but they had a really good record.

There are definitely a lot of similarities between yourselves and Garbage.  Not exclusively for the make up, but stylistically.

Well, thanks.  Yeah, we all inspire each other I think. And they've certainly, over the last few records, inspired me too. But, you know, with a lot of these bands, especially in techno music, which I really like 'cause there are so many toys to play with, there are still no songs. I can't sing along to them.  And, for me, that was one of the great things about music growing up.  It taught me a lot and gave me a lot of messages about how to live. I want to keep that going.

Talk a little about Berlin, as a band, past and present. Had you kept up on the previous members, and how did everything come together when there was talk of the reunion and where you're at now with the new band?

Oh yeah, I had a lot of contact with pretty much everybody. John Crawford was the co-writer and founder of the band back in 1977. I joined back in '79 first, and then I quit, and then it fell apart. He and I got back together in '81 and started writing again and stayed together, until the band broke up again in '88.

I started thinking about putting the band together again in '98 and called him. We tried to work together, but he was in a whole other world at that point and, you know, the spark just wasn't there. So, I auditioned some new people. My guitar player, Dallan's [Baumgarten], been with me since '98 and the other two main players, Mitchell [Sigman, keyboards] and the drummer, Chris Olivas, who also co-wrote "Stranger On The Bus" and "To A King," came on in 2000.

You were saying "more to play with" before in reference to techno music and, obviously, bringing in a new set of players has added a new dimension to the band's sound and allows you to transcend previous boundaries.

Yeah, they're into the future as well. They're into what's going on right now, what's just coming out. I'm not a gear head, but both of them are, and they'd show me how I can achieve the sounds and the ideas that I hear and what we could try for the band.

And that's a big difference. You still have the creative energy, now they can provide the new outlet for your music. Now, Berlin's been away for over ten years and almost without a trace, really. Had you ever any previous thoughts, short of assembling an old or new version of Berlin, to go with Terri Nunn solo?

I did that in '91, and I didn't like it. (Laughs.)  It's a whole different experience for me.  All of a sudden, not being part of a group of people who all fought together and cried together and went out together. That whole feeling of passion turned into a passion for me and a lot of hired guns who didn't care except that they were getting a paycheck.
And it's a completely different phenomenon that I didn't like at all. A lot of people like being solo artists, but it wasn't for me. I like a group where people are fighting for and believing in something together and working to make it great. There does have to be a boss, though. In the beginning of Berlin, we tried to do it democratically and it just didn't work.  Somebody's got to steer it. But with somebody steering it, you can still have five people who really care.

So, in the past, it would've been Crawford in that role, and now it's you. Are you comfortable with it?

I am now. But, when it started I was terrified. I'd never run anything before. I just showed up and sang and they told me what bus to get on and what plane to get on, what show to do. I just showed up and did my work and did my writing, but other than that, I didn't run anything.

So, the idea for Berlin today is to very much promote a group effort, geared more for a long run, rather than a few collaborators who filter in and out of the picture?

Yeah. It's important to me that they feel like a group and they're contributing in that way. With this one, it feels like that for the first time since John and Rick and the band that existed for the first three albums we released on Geffen. That felt like a band.

You talked earlier about the dance scene and electronic music, which I can't say I was originally reared on, but have learned to appreciate for all its inventiveness. I used to follow the synth pop stuff, in the past, and to see things evolve the way they have is really amazing. Are you into Goth at all?

Oh yeah!

I hear quite a bit of those sorts of elemental, dark wave moments interwoven into the music, like "The World Is Waiting," or even "Sacred And Profane," which is very sensuous and bittersweet. So, it just occurred to me that there must be some gothic presence within yours or the band's outlook, and I'm thinking Bauhaus or Sisters Of Mercy on occasion.

[ Author's Note: Here begins a long and enthusiastic conversation on the topic of Goth music, Nunn and I making small talk after having evidently struck a nerve with the earlier suggestion. While most needs not be presented here, such are further indications of the deeper direction of Berlin's music today. Consequentially, I come away satisfied at having enlightened Terri to the continuing phenomenon of underground gods like Fields Of The Nephilim and The Mission UK, and later, Moonspell's "Sin Pecado" record and vacationing in Budapest! ]

I'm a huge Sisters fan!  I did a song with Andrew [Eldritch] for a Best of Sisters record back in '94. I called him because I wanted him to work on my record originally. I went out to Germany. He lives in a cave (laughs) out in Hamburg. And he and I wrote some stuff and nothing really worked.  But there was a song that I brought over that he really liked. He asked if I was going to use it for my record and, since I couldn't get anybody excited about it, it was really strange and dark, and he said, well, I want to do it.  Why don't we sing it?  It was called "Under The Gun" and we sang it together for the Best Of Sisters album.

Those guys have been pretty low profile too, now for a while.

I know. Have they done anything lately? I lost touch with them the last couple of years.  Have they put anything out?

I haven't heard of anything. Maybe they should get a group of miners together and search all the caves.

Oh, that's bad!  (Laughs.)

Have you ever heard of Davy Vain?

No.

Not that you should, necessarily, but I've been in my "in search of" mode lately, and he was one of them I came across, from the band "Vain" that did some stuff in the early '90s. They were this glam/rock group that was actually pretty good.  I believe they've got something in the works.  But I'll put Eldritch on my list now too 'cause I'd like to know what's doing with The Sisters also.

Tell me a little about how you've viewed yourselves over the years. Of course, there was the big synth pop craze back in the day that's since been enveloped by this all-encompassing idea of "electronic" music. But sometimes artists become defensive about specific labels of who and what they were 'cause they feel it's limiting on future progress.  Are you comfortable with your past?

[Without even a trace of apprehension] Well, that's what it was called then. It was called New Wave, and synth pop, 'cause synthesizers were all we had to generate electronic sounds.  Now it's called electronic music, 'cause there's a lot more than just synthesizer keyboards to create sounds. I mean, now there's, like, little modules that you can plug in that have all the sounds and you can just run it from a computer.  (Laughs.)  So it's a lot bigger toy box to play with.

So, no, I don't mind the term because that's all that was available then. It's how it all started for us. We had a Profit 5 that our keyboard player used. It was this huge thing. That was pretty much the only way.  There was a Profit 1 and 5 that created all the sounds for "Pleasure Victim."  And since then it's just morphed into this ... oh my god, it's just so exciting live now. When I saw Garbage, I think it was in '97 I saw them and I saw NIN soon after that, and I saw what they were doing live and it got me really excited to get Berlin going again!

It's weird in a way how you guys could've been influences on those type bands that are credited, and deservingly, with taking electronic music to new levels, and now, so you're at the beginning level in a way; you leave, here's this second wave of artists furthering the limits of creativity in what they did, and now here we are exploring even deeper from where they've been.

Yes, and seeing what could be done, especially live, and finally seeing what I could do with what was going on. I didn't know where to take Berlin at that point. It was so exciting to see that bands like Garbage were able to do live what could only be done in the studio previously. I mean, now, we don't have a bass player. Because just like in the beginning, pretty much for all the records, we had generated bass with a synthesizer bass or it's all generated.  So, we would try to simulate that live with the live bass player and you can't do it. A live bass player doesn't sound like a machine. But it was all we had.  (Laughs.)  So, we had to try and do it. Now, with Tascam D-88's and multi-tracks, we can create on stage a sound that isn't humanly possible. It's fantastic!  It's so far beyond bass, drums, guitars and keyboards now, that it's an unlimited world to discover.

It is amazing what's being translated from tape to stage now isn't it?

It is!  I'm so over the original rock outfit of the four-piece or five-piece… bass, guitar, drums, vocals, you know?  I've heard as many guitar solos as I ever wanna hear. They've all been done. It's time to bring some new ideas, change it up. And electronic music is the only medium that's doing that.

There was a new single by [after several seconds of stuttering in search of her full name, as though it were easy to forget] Kylie Minogue that I have to admit just blew me away. Not so much because of the song, which I really liked anyway, but seeing her perform in the video and she's this hot, sultry, soulful singer with all these club beats going on and then, it's like, whoa, is that the same girl doing that shopping mall pop stuff from the eighties?

I know what you mean, I like that song too. We both dated Michael Hutchence around the same time, that's how I know her.

That lucky devil!

Ah, he was just amazing. What a sexy man.

I think INXS is doing some shows again.  I know they've got some records coming out, but I guess hearing they'll be doing some dates kinda struck me as odd considering.

I haven't heard anything. I feel for them though 'cause they're really nice guys. I haven't met many bands where every single person was a good person, but I felt that way about INXS.  And it's so sad that the guy died; they put so many years into building a career around this entity and it's completely destroyed in a night, and everything they worked for, their livelihoods, are pretty much dead in the water.  I'm hoping they can do something with it. I don't know if it will work, but I can't fault them for trying. Building Berlin, I mean it's ... I had no idea how much groundwork I'd laid in Berlin and even when I brought it back, it was still there!  And I was able to build on that and now it's, like, this huge thing. It's like a business, it's got different arms, different methods of revenue and employees and the whole thing.  It's like, fuck, this doesn't grow up in a day.  So these guys in INXS, what are they going to do, start over again after all this time?  It's just so hard to get something going in music, you know?

It'll be interesting to see how things play out. Now they might only be dressing up some old releases for reissue, I'm not sure, but maybe anything forward depends on that.

It's like The Doors though, isn't it? It's like Jim Morrison and trying to have someone just stand on the same stage as him and the band.  (Laughs.)

Oh, so you never knew it was really a stand in for those post-71 chronicles?  Actually, it's funny you mentioned that, you know, it's eerie, but then the rest stayed pretty busy in the aftermath. I mean, they were, to me, one of the few bands that, musically, were equally as distinct, or as deep, as the singer, so as to maintain their own functionality even afterwards, you know?

But, anyway, staying momentarily on the fallen idol topic, how'd you come to work with Billy Corgan on the Sacred And Profane Hutchence-tribute song? You know. I'm so in awe of the guy, not even for what he meant as a singer, but you and Kylie, man!

Hey, it was worth it!  (Laughs.) No, well it was right around the same time, that he made me aware of her. I guess he had just been dating her or something.

And that's when you left him for Billy Idol? (Laughs.)

(Laughs.) Ah, that's funny!  No, but I met Billy Idol a few times over the years, but ...

Yeah, he's one of my "idols" for sure.

Really?

Oh, yeah, him and Sam from Cheers! (Laughs.)

Well, he's back out again, Billy Idol. That's going to be a great show.

I can't wait to see them. I never saw him back in the day but there's been a lot going on recently, so yeah, he's another one that I think can expound on the future of music considering his impact back then.
You know, not many people really got Cyberpunk, and not that I'm saying it was necessarily a good album; it was probably more intimidating for its time.

Oh, absolutely. I love a lot of what he's done!  But Michael Hutchence was in my life when we were making the third record, somewhere around '85? I think ...

Love Life, in '84?

No, I was making … oh, wait a minute. Maybe you're right. It was!  We were making the second record 'cause we were making it over there.  That's right.

And his band came over; they were just starting. It was their first time touring England, and they played this little club. And, luckily, we were on the same label over there so our band got comp tickets to go and see 'em. They were huge in America already, but England was just starting to get it.

And I watch this guy and completely lose my mind in the space of five minutes!  I've never seen a performer like that, before or since. He was what I imagined Jim Morrison must have been like, this spontaneous and sexual entity that was going with the music and never knew what was going to happen next. It was all about sex and he was all about music too and just a great musician. But where were we before?

Sorry, I have this habit of bringing up one point, then sliding some other quick subtlety that steers away from the original thought. So, in other words, I have absolutely no idea. (Laughs.)  Oh yeah, Billy Corgan, and working with him on the song.

Well, I called Billy at the beginning of this year. We were going to release the record ourselves as an EP and then two record companies came in and heard it and wanted to release it. We signed with Artist Direct and they decided to make it a full-blown album. They wanted four more songs immediately instead of eight.

So, I called a few people to see if they would work with me. Billy was one of them and he said, "Yeah, I'm going to be out there in a couple weeks, whatcha got? Send me what you're doing." So I sent him a bunch of songs, one of them was "Sacred," which had already been written, but it was faster and more of a rock song. He called me and said he really liked the song, but wanted to change the music a little bit. So he came out with a guitar and sat down with me and Mitchell, and played us his ideas and within two days we had the thing done. He just slowed it down, and made it very "film noir" sounding. He actually wrote a song on the Adore album called "Shame" for Michael Hutchence as well, so we both had a really huge respect there.

And, he's a pretty credible name to have collaborated with; I mean, if anything lends an extra viability to an earlier band reemerging in the future … I think there should be more of a collaboration of this type between past and present, particularly for those bands more on the cutting edge, with the same designs, you know, and bounce ideas off each other.

Funny you say that, because I completely agree and it's amazing to me that it never happens. In fact, when Corgan came out, during a break when we were working together, he asked why I called him. (Laughs.)  I said, "'Cause I love your writing and I wanted to write with you." He said nobody ever calls him. Can you believe that?

That is surprising. I mean, who were more relevant to modern rock music than a band like Smashing Pumpkins?

Nobody ever calls me either! It doesn't happen. Every collaboration I've ever done, from Andrew on, most of them have been me calling them. It never came out of the blue for me.

It's strange, but I think there's a double-edged sword to success that some people just don't get over. To me, bands like yours in the beginning, Depeche Mode, New Order, whoever, had this groundbreaking ability to create a difference; an atmosphere that was previously unexplored.  But it's that creative aspect that's so preeminent in the beginning, people don't get it, or only a few do, so it boosts their underground appeal, which is what people today will point to as eclectic or innovative.  But, then once the space fills up and a few hits start resulting from it, all of a sudden their original credibility gets lost.  So, still, it's strange that a band like the Pumpkins or yours earlier aren't looked to for ideas or co-writing credits.

I don't know what to make of it either, but I think you've got a good point in there somewhere. (Laughs.)

Yeah, I figured if I poured out enough somewhere it would reveal itself!  (Laughs.)  So, okay, now for something a little less strenuous, let's hear more about the web site, TerriNunn.com.

It's not mine, actually. It must be a fan site.

Really?

Yeah, I don't have a web site. (Laughs.)  Uh, uh … there's a Berlin web site, but it's not mine. It's actually not even official, but we give them information 'cause we love 'em so much.  It's called Berlinpage.com.  But I don't know of TerriNunn.com.

Well, go check it out, you might be surprised 'cause it's really pretty good. I pulled some great live photos and got all the historical information, and so … you know, probably without them, we'd have only gotten about as far as The Knack's new record!

(Laughs.) Yeah, right.

Tell me a little about the forthcoming Playboy article. [Author's Note: Apparently here's where my supposedly dormant adolescent hormonal issues stir again, where subliminal wanderlust confuses terms like "article" and "pictorial spread" prior to a red-faced attempt at recovery.]

It came about through our publicist. They initiated contact and since the magazine is starting to finally cover some newer music … they have a new music editor, so now it's not just going to be the latest Eric Clapton record or something.  (Laughs.)

Yeah, thankfully! (Laughs.)

I mean, it's just been a really old kind of section. More for older people, I guess.

Yeah so, what, does Hefner himself also double as section editor then?

(Laughs.) Yeah, right, well.  Now they're trying to update their whole thing and they're doing a whole series of interviews with women.

[Author's Note: And here's where the concept of "article-textural" should've been solidified and understood.  Unfortunately, my suddenly one-track mind was having none of it.]

Women rock figures.  Yup, and I was one.

Figures who still obviously look pretty good, too!  (Laughs.)  I mean, it's not like they're going to throw a caption of Joan Jett in there or something, ya know?

(Laughs.)  Hey, she's looks good.

I don't read Playboy, actually, but I'll have to make sure to check it out. The January issue, right?

That's what they said.

So how do you feel about doing it?  Obviously it's not something you're bothered by.

By what?

"Appearing" in Playboy. Is it something you'd ever thought to do before?

It's an interview Vinnie!  They didn't ask me to get naked!

I know.  I just wanted to see how you'd react.  (Laughs.)  No, seriously, I did get a little off-the-track here.  But that kind of takes the fun out of it then!  (Laughs.)

(Laughs.) I'm sorry.

Well, hey, depending on the result, maybe something for you to consider in the future.  You know, tie it in with the whole Voyeur concept and you never know how far you can take it!

Oh, thanks, but no.  (Laughs.)  It's just interviews with women rockers and that kind of thing, a series.

Okay, so now that the album's finally been released and so far the advance billing's been great for the band, what do you have in the works for a tour?

We're setting it up for January and February. It's going to be a states tour, maybe three or four weeks and 15-20 dates.  We're not sure what kind of package to do but we're looking into either the Tom Tom Club or going the direction of The Lords Of Acid.  It's funny you brought up goth before, because the president of my record company, when we had a meeting yesterday about the tour, said he thinks that goth is a really nice idea for an opening act for Berlin.  He thinks it's coming back.  It was really interesting to me since, I mean, we're a very goth type band. Everybody's into that whole feeling, but I was just surprised that he said it 'cause he's definitely not into goth and neither is the label.  And then, he comes up with ideas like Strawberry Switchblade and Lords Of Acid pairing with Berlin.  I thought that was really cool!

[ Web Site: www.Berlinpage.com ]

Discography:

"Information" (1980)
"Pleasure Victim" EP (1982)
"Love Life" (1984)
"Count Three And Pray" (1986)
"Dancing In Berlin" Remixes (1987)
"Best Of" (1988)
"Moment Of Truth" Terri Nunn Solo (1991)
"Master Series" Comp (1997)
"Fall Into Heaven" EP (1999)
"Fall Into Heaven II" EP (1999)
"Greatest Hits Remixed" (2000)
"Live: Sacred & Profane" (2000)
"Voyeur" (2002)